PoDcast: Jesus has Left the Building, S3, Ep4 Transcript
"The Best Kept Secret"
The following transcript was created with support from otter.ai and edited by me for accuracy. I am the guest, and pastors Marta and Mandy are the hosts.
Highlights (mine) are in bold.
Click here to listen to the full episode.
Host 0:02
Welcome to Jesus has left the building where we talk with people leading creative outside the box—I mean outside the church building—ministries that inspire and engage us.
Our vision is to unfold God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. Our hope is that these stories will help you find ways to engage in your own communities as we work together for a more just and loving world. This is the Jesus has Left the Building podcast where ministers people of faith activists and church leaders have left the building to with Marta and Mandy.
So today's episode is called “The Best Kept Secret” and we have our guest today the Rev. Sarah TevisTownes. She’s the pastor of Church of the Good Shepherd UCC in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And we met her in a really interesting way. We did the Southwest Conference, United Church of Christ annual meeting, we were on a panel presented via Zoom a couple of months ago, and she was on right. And she was super excited and told us about TikTok, which is not something that Mandy and I are super familiar with.
Host 1:32
Mostly Mandy. Mandy is not familiar with it…
Host 1:36
Except that I have a 14 year old and so and some other teenagers that that send me little TikTok videos on a regular basis. But Sarah is really interesting. She stayed on for a while with us, and she told us about her TikTok account right at Good Shepherd AB Q, and how she started it during the pandemic, and it became a very prophetic media based pulpit. Yeah, yeah. She was able to really speak truth to power in a way that she wasn't in, in any other platform. Right? Or in her church. Right,
Host 2:21
Right. And so she joins us today, and tells us the story of how that happens. And talks to us about this amazing. well kept secret of Tiktok ministry that's kind of exploding. Sarah has tons and tons and tons, like hundreds of 1000 followers. And there are others who are doing this work too. So we're super excited to hear Sara's story and just to know her better.
Host 2:51
Hello, Sarah, we are glad that you are with us today and telling your story. The first question that we are going to get to is from the very beginning it is tell us about your medium, your media tool that you use for ministry. So it's a two part question. So that's number one. And then the second part is, there are so many options. So why did you choose this one.
Guest 3:15
So I chose this one because my church administrator encouraged me to so I have to give props to Erica in the church office for encouraging me to try this out. She said you would have so much fun with this. One of the things I really missed when we went online for worship is that we stopped doing children's time. And I love doing object lessons and taking the sermon and kind of shortening it and putting it in a way that people can touch and feel. And so TikTok is a great place to do that.
TikTok is a video sharing platform but unlike YouTube, the videos are limited by length. So most of the videos are under a minute. Some are under I would say most are actually under 15 seconds. So it's a very different style.
TikTok also curates your content. So, if you like or interact with a post TikTok is going to send you more videos like that. If you say not interested. So early on, when I got on the app, it would send me all these dance videos of teenagers and I just, I'm not interested, thank you. I'm glad there are people who are, but it's not my thing. And so then they send you more of what you want. And so because the videos are so short, TikTok gets a lot of data about what you enjoy. And so that allows you to connect with other people with similar interests. So I've really liked that about the platform.
You can TikTok also tracks hashtags. So for example, some other progressive clergy and I created the hashtag #progressiveclergy. And so if they like one of the videos that I post, then they're more likely to be sent videos from other progressive clergy. So it actually builds community quickly, because you end up seeing all the same videos as other people with your same interests.
Host 5:20
I'm thinking about so many different things right now. Number one is I love the idea how you use the sort of the idea of the in person children's time, right to and transitioning it to this platform of Tiktok. And so I guess I'm curious about number one, what are the age of those who follow you? Are you meeting the similar needs? Like, I know that doing, for example, children's and youth ministry during the global pandemic, was not ideal, because, you know, young people don't want to hang out on zooms in the same way as other generations. And so this was another way to sort of get them a religious education per se, or to minister to them in a different way. Right. So I don't know how can you speak to that a little bit, because I think that is super, super fascinating. To not have direct contact on contact with them on the channel steps, but to have contact with them through your cell phone? Yeah,
Guest 6:28
The majority of my followers are Gen Z. So folks under 20, although I also have a lot of followers who are ex-Evangelical, or folks have left the church because they were rejected, because so a lot of LGBTQ folks who are older, but for the most part, I mean, people in the platform in general are younger folks. So it's mostly teenagers, some children as well. I started out doing more content about service dogs, because I have a service dog. And anytime you post dogs and cats, you end up with a lot of kids, which is great. But I think my content is targeted more at Junior High in high school and adult folks.
Host 7:19
Yeah, I think it is quite brilliant, by the way. I mean, I like have my 14 year old go through and and listen to because you know it, it really gives you that quick like education. Which brings me to like I just want for our listeners out there TikTok is an application on a smartphone Correct? Like Facebook and Instagram. And I think the app, but the way it's different. And so I don't know, if you want to speak to this a little bit, the way I think it's a little bit different, is it feels like, in some ways, like a modern library. Because you're like sort of gleaning information in it feels like it intersects with this idea of it being like an art exhibit. Right? So it's this combination of information and art, sort of in the short little videos. Would you say that? Was that how you would kind of describe it because I feel like when I watch you, if you're not just giving us information, like you're not just I mean, it's good, it's solid, it's smart. But it there's also this art form to it. Right?
Guest 8:35
Absolutely. But one of the things I think distinguishes TikTok from a place like Instagram, is that the art is not looking beautiful or polished or shiny. I think the more authentic you are on TikTok, the more likely you are to build a big following, that people want to interact with real individuals.
And it is like a library because you know, you check out a book and you love that book. I don't know if people still use real libraries or read everything online. But you know, in a real library, you go and then they're all of these other books in the same section. And so you can browse around and say, Oh, this is sort of adjacent to my interest, which is how I end up connecting with a very ecumenical group of clergy. Also, I've connected with a lot of rabbis, a lot of religious studies, professors, a lot of folks interested in history. And so you build a community where you're all talking about similar things from different angles.
And I love that part of the platform. You can also go live on TikTok. That's a big piece that I guess you can do that on Facebook and Instagram as well but TikTok encourages it. So kind of like I am with you now. I'm alive on the platform, and people can send comments.
It feels for those of you in the UCC, it feels like an ecclesiastical Council. Because you're on the spot, and people are asking these tough questions, you know, what is the nature of the Trinity? How do you solve the Synoptic Problem, you know, just who is your favorite Prophet and why. And so you get to engage in ways that we don't always necessarily in the parish in the local congregation, because people have already sorted those questions out for themselves.
But when you're 15, and you're figuring out faith and trying to distinguish yourself from your parents, faith, perhaps, to have these conversations with a real life pastor, is wonderful. And we have the same people come to our lives all the time. And what's fun is all go to, like a colleague's live session. And the same people that show up at my live session are there. And so we can interact with each other. And gradually, you really do build community. They've also added a feature where you can go live with someone else. So yesterday, I was live, for example, with a guy named wise old llama man who's from the Alliance of Baptists. And he lives in England. And we answered questions together, at from very different perspectives, or I've gone live with Ralph Timothe, who's a UCC pastor out in Massachusetts. And even though we're both in UCC, we come to things a little bit differently. And so folks get to see some of the variety within the United Church of Christ.
Before the annual meeting, I actually invited our associate conference minister and some of my church members, including Professor, the Reverend Dr. Randy Walker, who writes books about UCC history and polity, I put them on Zoom behind me. And so then the Tiktok audience is interacting with real-life church folks from the UCC. And so there's this connection. So even though we're in this digital space, what I love about it is that it's not hard to bring sort of the traditional church into dialogue with it.
Host 12:11
There's that there's that intersection. You know, for those of you out there, the ecclesiastical Council of United Church of Christ is a public examination that all clergy are required to do before being ordained and call to ministry. And another note, I just wanted to put that out there. Um, so you know, you encouraged me to do a TikTok.
Host 12:34
Yeah, you know, what I'll say about it, this is what I'll say about it. And I it's a work in progress. Let’s just say that. That's number one. Number two is, um, you know, I love what you said about authenticity, and that performative and all of that, and that I think, you know, being a Gen X, or like, getting away from that is super hard, like my 14 year old, was working with me one evening on it, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I look so bad. There's no way and she's like, it's going to be fine, Mom, just go for it. But, but I freaked out. So what you're saying is, we just need to, like, we just need to enter the space, like, just be your authentic self, just enter the space that do your thing, right?
Guest
Because remember, people are watching from home, a lot of TikTok took off during a pandemic, because people are at home in their pajamas, they're stressed out. And if they see this person who's all you know, perfect makeup, and everything is just perfect. It's not nearly as relatable as someone who just is themselves. I almost never wear makeup in my TikTok videos. I just, I'm just me. And I think, okay, I say that, but I also wear a lot of costumes to be. To be fair, I there is some production value to my tiktoks. You know, even when I was doing service dog stuff, I was filming it outdoors with the Sandia Mountains in the background, you know, good lighting helps. That being said, there are some creators who don't have any of that, and they have millions of followers because people just relate to them.
Host 14:19
Right? It's like somebody's sitting in their closet in their pajamas, basically. Exactly.
Guest 14:25
So you're talking to real people, and then you can interact with them. I remember it kind of blew my mind. I Laurie Hernandez who's a Olympic gymnast was live the other day. And so I'm in her life was just a few other people having a conversation with this person who I consider to be a celebrity. So it's what it's just it's a wild experience.
Host 14:52
I think it's so interesting that you know how this this tool has developed during In a pandemic, right, and this is, you know, one of the things about our podcast, this idea that Jesus has left the building really came out of the pandemic as well, right? Like, we're in this particular space in time in history, where people have this, I don't know, urge this calling right? To do things in a different way to, to, to interact with people in a different way. And then the pandemic has forced us to do that, right, like things that maybe we would have thought about, but maybe not had the guts to do, or the time to do or whatever, like the pandemic has kind of created this particular container for, you know, taking these things outside of our sort of standard repertoire, right.
Guest 15:48
Absolutely. Getting Started, I mean, I started Tiktok the same time that we went into lockdown. And part of it was, I was working in my college daughter's bedroom. You know, we were totally locked down, I wouldn't have left the house, it was a way for me to just get out and engage with the world and do something for myself. It was a really rough start, you know, the pandemic was hard on everybody. And so connection was, all of a sudden, very different. I didn't, I wasn't able to go see friends and give them a hug and have a conversation and laugh about something. And so TikTok gave me an opportunity to do that at a distance and to make new friends. And the other thing is I got on there. And then I met a couple of other progressive Christians, there were very few of us early on. Now there are over 200 of us, we formed a little squad that has a Facebook page, and we collaborate and support each other. But now what it's become is a place where I can find spiritual fulfillment.
So one of my colleagues does a morning prayer service, for example. And we all go to the prayer service. And we're fed by that I learned from folks like the wise Obama man and this guy, CFC underscore Jeff chosen family church. I've learned more about the Bible, Professor Gray, who's a professor of Jewish Studies, I've learned so much about the Bible about Judaism about Hebrew. So it's a place that's become a spiritual home for me, and this makeshift community of other pastors and religious leaders who are trying to keep their sanity during the pandemic. And in the process. I mean, what's happened organically is that we've become this online family, and this online group of support, and it is ecumenical and interfaith. And that diversity really, I think, is one of the greatest gifts of the platform. I talked to UCC colleagues all the time, but I didn't know a lot of Mennonites or Methodists or, you know, rabbis who could challenge me and push back and help me see new, I have new understandings of the Incarnation. I have a new understanding of what our Hebrew Scriptures tell us about Jesus. So all of that has come out of jumping on this platform.
A lot of folks think that TikTok is creator centered, that it's about sort of the charisma of the creators. But I would really push back against that and say that it's a place where we build community.
Host 18:38
So that's a I think, a really great segue into this next question. How do you use this digital space to to evoke a particular experience with the divine to express those experiences? What does that look like for you?
Guest 18:57
So there are some traditional worship experiences that we've produced on TikTok and collaboration, this progressive clergy squad, so we've done communion services. We've done whole worship services, where we have people jump from, you know, my live and then we all go to somebody else's and we do you know, a song together and then we all go somewhere else and hear a sermon. So we've done some of that, but I think TikTok more than anything is a starting place. It's a spark.
I feel like I've become the Rolodex for the UCC. Because people are always asking me, Where can I find a church like this? So people come to Tiktok. And they find this information and they say, oh, there's a church that welcomes LGBT people, where can I find one? And so it's not like we're not creating all of the spiritual experience that people need. I really think that in person community is important, or at least community that you can see face to face at some point, maybe on Zoom. We have done Bible studies with folks where we're on Zoom face to face, which is great. But I think ultimately people are searching for more than that. You know, they want an in person community where they can continue to grow and explore this. So we're the spark, or Tiktok is a start. It's only it's 15 tickets right? Now they let me they gave me some of us have permission to do three minute videos, which I don't who's going to watch three whole minutes on TikTok. And the live stream, I think the live stream is really where you can do worship, like meaningful worship experiences. Gary on religion is another one. He's a Canadian pastor who does great prayer services and people submit prayer requests, and he has candles and he likes candles for folks. So you can do worship on TikTok. But, I mean, the short videos are really just a place to begin a conversation.
Host 21:07
But what's interesting about that is so you are you are defining worship in a certain way. Right?
Guest
Yeah.
Host
And TikTok is not that right. But what if like, what if TikTok is a divine experience for a 15 year old? What if those 15 seconds? I mean, instead of coming for an hour on Sunday morning, which they're less likely to do right to traditional worship? They're gonna get a minute each day from TikTok, I mean, that's just an example. Right? So then they have, you know, whatever, 15 minutes of Tiktok, where they're getting divine experiences throughout the week, in some way, shape, or form. That is that spark is that seed for inspiring them in one way or another.
You know, I can see young people. Oh, my gosh, look at this minister, who is basically my mom's age, doing this really fun, cool, like, smart thing. Like, that's inspirational. That's kind, that's super cool. That's where God is showing up. I know that like my, even my older children, my older teenagers have sent me some of the Tiktoks from the progressive Christian hashtag. There was one person who was basically telling this whole 15 Second story on Mary, Mother of Jesus. And I don't know if you know this one, but anyway, it was.
Guest
Absolutely yeah.
Host
And they were super excited, like, Mom, look at this person who is like preaching and the way that you do like, this is kind of phenomenal. And it's on a social media platform that I actually engage in because they don't engage in Facebook, like I do. They don't they do some Instagram, but really TikTok is a medium that works for them. And so I guess, I want to like challenge that for even all of our listeners out there. What would youth ministry look like, via TikTok? What would that look like? And also, just speaking to your sort of Spark and planting seed idea? What if this is one more piece of the fluid church that we are moving into, right? So it's not binary? It's not this or that, but it's just one piece of this whole thing that I think the church is turning into, that we are constructing as a church you know,
Guest
Yes, Yes, amen. Yes. And, and it's not just younger people. So I'm a millennial, barely. I experienced God on TikTok. And it's weird to say that, but I feel more connected to the spirit more connected to my faith than I ever have. And part of it is that on a little break, I have a five-minute break, I go on TikTok, and I hear from three different pastors sharing the good news. Or I hear someone telling me that, you know, whatever my sexuality or gender, I'm welcome, and that God loves me. Those are little divine moments.
And I guess I hadn't thought about it is worship because I'm also a traditional pastor. I also worked full time in a church where we had we sing out of the hymnal, and you know, we I do a 15-minute sermon instead of a 15-second one. But absolutely, the thing that is tough that we're really struggling to figure out and I think we're, we're still figuring out is that that's a very individual experience.
So there are people who are coming to Christianity because of TikTok. Right? My videos have over 4 million views, right? There are people who have seen this, who've never heard about Jesus before. And they're excited about Jesus. But yeah, anyway, I struggle with it. Because Tiktok you're in your room by yourself looking at your phone. And you may be interacting with someone on the internet, but it's, it's not face to face. And there's an imbalance there because they're on video, you're not. I mean, we have built community, but I would say the strongest community that's been built has been between the progressive clergy.
Host 1:52
So I think that is sort of the next sort of piece of it is what? Like, can we talk about community for a minute? Let's unpack that. Because I think I think that, in so many ways, a progressive Christian entity has reclaimed language, right. And we've taken it we sort of redefined it to so that it sits well in our hearts. And I think we are in sort of that transitional liminal space of figuring out how are we going to reclaim that word and definition community now?
And we I don't think we've quite gotten there yet. I think we're still sort of grappling with it and struggling with it. And what that does that look like in this space?
And what I have said, particularly with this podcast, is that yes, it's like, like Priya Parker said, “it is the host, the guests and the listeners,” but sometimes in that, and that can be sort of a community, right, that is reclaiming that idea of community, right. And around an intentional sort of idea and or story.
That's intentional gathering. So that's one way to look at it and to sort of reclaim that idea of community. But also, my hope, is that this will just be an inspiration, right? To then either be like, oh, there is faith communities out there that do this thing, where can I find it? Or, Oh, I do want to go and be a follower of Jesus. And this is what it looks like, or oh, maybe God does exist? And what does that look like in my own life? So while it's not sort of community incarnate, it is it is community reclaimed in a different way. And I don't know if if you want to speak to that a little bit, or how does that land with you. Acknowledging that TikTok, and or podcasting, and Facebook and social media can never be the only thing. Right, right. Um, so it's always one more layer to sort of what we're already doing. But I guess what I would say is then maybe that transforms our embodied community in a different way, right? Maybe that transforms the way we actually do church, in person. So they're all sort of interacting in this collaborative way. That is redefining community differently.
Guest
There are a lot of different ways to do community. And you know, again, we built this incredibly tight group of, of clergy and and I never would have expected that we joke about, you know, we all need to go to summer camp together. Because that's what Tiktok feels like sometimes you go to summer camp and you meet all these people you never thought you would connect with, and yet you'd become best friends and you never want to leave. And so it's created a safe space and a brave space for clergy who can't necessarily be as open or prophetic in their local church. And that's an interesting balance, actually, and a lot of us have struggled with that. Because you can't, the relationships are different in a community. I've been pastoring this church for eight years. So these are long term relationships. And so I can't just come out and say things the way I do on TikTok and 15 seconds that are really punchy, and you know, spill the tea with folks that I'm going to be in a relationship with for a long time. So that's, it's a little bit different. It is a community of a sort, but it's different. I think some of the tools TikTok is creating, like, going live with other people has facilitated community because then it's just not one person speaking into the void and people typing comments, I can have followers actually jump on and go live with me and we can interact. And that feels a little bit different.
Host 6:29
I want to go back for a minute, like you said something about, you know, you can say these things on TikTok, that you would not necessarily say to the people in your church, right? So talk about…look at me going off script. Talk about how your church, which How many of you have you have 180 members or something like that? How do they respond to this sort of side gig that you have? Do they engage? Do they like it? Do you ever get pushback? Are they like, oh my god, what are you doing? How could you say that, like just spill some tea for us?
Guest 7:11
Well, so first of all, they're 100%, supportive, and all of the tiktoks, I create, I put on my church Facebook page. So I am blessed to be in a congregation that
Host
Hashtag community!
Guest
Yeah! Community! Now, they don't understand all of it. And I speak very, very quickly. And my tech talks much faster than I do when I preach. I also underscore all my videos, almost all my videos with music. And so that's harder for some folks to hear. So they don't understand it. But we talk a lot in my church about not necessarily understanding each other's ministry, but supporting it. And this is not a side gig, by the way, this is part of my ministry at Church of the Good Shepherd. And they believe that they support that.
And I mean, all the costumes I use are from the church costume, cause we have a long history of doing drama and ministry outside the box here at this church. Mixing art and faith is a part of who we are and what we do. And so even though they don't understand, just like I don't understand all the ministry that they do, necessarily, but I support it, because I see that they're doing the results are wonderful. They're connecting with people outside the building, and you know, great. So I also set it up that way and did a lot of articles in the newsletter, and I talked about it in church and helped people understand what I was up to so and they know that they're not necessarily the target audience. So for example, I don't use profanity in my sermons. But I did a TikTok about the King James being the Bible of unicorns and ass, alright? Because it used the word ass for donkey. So that's not something that I would use in worship, because it's offensive to some of my church members that profanity is, and so I'm not going to use it in their space.
I'm speaking a different language. I'm speaking Gen Z language. I'm trying. I'm a guest there, but I'm trying to learn that language. And they are wise enough to understand that. The results are great, right? We have 100,000 people over 100,000 who know who we are. We're building a progressive Christian movement on TikTok that didn't exist a year ago. And so they're excited about that. That is exciting. It's super exciting, and engaging with our congregation that are gonna push their buttons a little bit because they've come from TikTok. And they're young and they're, you know, queer, they're non binary. They asked different questions. Since they speak at a different speed, they use different vocabulary. And my church embraces that diversity.
Host
So they're excited about it, even though they, they don't get it all the time.
Guest
Right. I'm hopeful at some point, what I really want to do is have, especially once we can be in the same place together, to have church members, come be live with me on TikTok, because this may surprise folks. But when I have an older person, especially, who's talking about loving LGBT folks, and Black Lives Matter, and they're working on their own your racism and their implicit biases, and they're serving in the community, the Tiktokk, folks respond really positively. Like, oh, it's not just this random pastor, right? Or a bunch of you. And they're not just young people. They're, you know, people over 80 Are our fans, you know, they've got our back, we're, and so so that actually makes a big impact. So I'm excited to bridge those two communities even more.
Host 11:10
Yeah, I'm, I am just like, I love this story. I mean, I really, really love it once we met you. And then I got on TikTok, and watched you and listen to you, you are so smart, and engaging. In those short 15 seconds, your content is so so so great. And so I, I hope that people find you, I hope that they download the app on their phone, even if it's just to like, you know, Can you can you tell us your name on TikTok?
Host 11:49
Yeah, I've been wanting to tell you over and over again. So it's goodshepherdbq. And Good Shepherd is the name of my church. So it is really a church account. It's not my private stuff. It's kind of an extension of the pulpit. And I have freedom of the pulpit, and written into my letter of call. And so I do push some issues when it comes to things like sexism and racism, that maybe my church isn't ready for in such a such a direct way.
Host 12:32
I love that idea of the extension of a pulpit or or like it is, you know, pulpit number two, right? Or, you know, one of the things that I've said about the podcast is it's like an extension of adult faith formation. Yeah, like it's just another space to have those lectures and conversations and stories and interviews. And and I think that, that, that this is the beauty right of media and technology right now that it is inspiring us. We don't have to spend hundreds and hundreds and 1000s of dollars to bring in really smart people to share their wisdom and knowledge with our congregation, right? Like, we can have different spaces to do that.
Guest 13:23
I am finding videos where I can share them with my congregation on my Facebook page or in our midweek message. Like Black creators, for example, we're talking about race and racism and their experiences, so that I as a white woman, explain explaining, like the Black experience in America, right? So that has been a gift to, to hear voices that may not be as present in our community. That, you know, here are some indigenous voices that are talking about what's going on in New Mexico, but not in our church so I can have other leaders speak. And it's diversifying our experience of the Body of Christ. Right, I can have a disabled creator talk about what the social model of disability is.
And it blows folks minds and it's only a minute long. But this one thing that I love, it's been a mental health boon. Because, you know, as a pastor, sometimes you have really tough conversations with people. Not only in your church, but out in the world and people say some awful things. And so I can play the role of I use Karen, I put, I don't know how anyone feels about that. But I put on a blonde Bob wig and this like sweater and some pearls. They're actually Mardi Gras beads, but they look like
Host 14:49
Can you just define Karen real quick for our listeners?
Host 14:58
Karen is a middle middle aged privileged white woman, stereotypically one who calls the cops on black people who are walking in her neighborhood who always wants to talk to the manager because her Starbucks is too hot. She's very entitled. And so I can put on that costume.
It's funny, because when I post up to my Facebook page, the baby boomers in my church are like, Oh, I love that outfit. And my poor friends are like, Oh, the horror. Can you not? It's not Halloween, like, don't scare me, this is awful.
So I can embody some of that negativity that I'm hearing in the world. But I could create a different outcome. So in my videos, often there's growth for Karen. In one minute, she gets it.
You know, Karen's, like, “Do we really need a rainbow flag on the church? Do we have to be so in your face about it?” (Which is not something I've heard at my congregation, but I have heard other place). And then I repsond “Yes. Karen, we do, Yes. Absolutely, we do. Because, you know, Christians have been told it's, it's a big ask to make the church feel like a safe space for LGBTQ folks. So we need to scream it from the mountaintops. And by the end of the video, Karen's like, “Oh, that makes sense.” Which is healing for me. Because it's like, you know, that it gives people hope that that Karen can learn it also, for folks who watch my videos, and who resonate with Karen's perspective. It gives them permission to grow also.
Host 16:48
Yeah, that's it. That is I think, a great space sort of to end our time together is that idea of the the second and or additional pulpit that you are working for the hope that you provide in your 15 seconds, the growth that you give, it's really, really wonderful. So I hope that our listeners out there and say your say you're at Good Shepherd ABQ.
Guest
But also just search the hashtag #progressiveclergy or #progressiveChristian. If you get on TikTok, click the little magnifying glass that say discover and just type in progressive Christian, and you will find so much extraordinary content. And that's the other thing.
The last thing I want to say is, we've learned that when one of one church online church does well, the rest of us do well, too. So it's really helped. I think a lot of churches get competitive with other churches in their neighborhoods. But on TikTok, it's so clear that when we promote each other, we do better together. So anytime you watch anything with the hashtag, progressive Christian, you're supporting all of the progressive Christian creators on TikTok, because TikTok will send people more progressive Christian content, because they're like, oh, people are excited about progressive Christianity. And so then, you know, my account gets a boost, everybody gets a boost. And that's the same in real life too, right? If we if one church is doing really well, if they UCC church across town is adding a bunch of members. There's a bigger audience for the message that we're sharing as well. So yeah, we're always multiplying each other's gifts.
Host 18:34
So great. We will definitely put some links to resources so you can find Sarah and other progressive clergy on TikTok and in those spaces, we are so grateful for you to spend this time with us today, Sarah, thank you. This has felt like church. Thanks!
